0:00 spk_0
Welcome to a new episode of Opening bid on filtered here at the NASDAQ in Times Square. Like I always say, this podcast will make you a smarter investor, period. And we’re gonna really, uh, get very smart on all things autonomous vehicles here. I’m really excited for this chat, uh, very, very excited, I should say. Aurora CEO and co-founder Chris Armsen is here on the podcast. Chris, good to see you. So let me, let me start this way. I went on YouTube.And I was watching a, I guess it was a lot like a live feed of a driverless semi truck exactly walk me through what was I watching, cause I have never seen something like this before.
0:39 spk_1
Yeah, so thanks for having me on. Glad to be here. Uh, you’re seeing our trucks operate on the road every day. Uh, so we have these driverless trucks today operating between Dallas and Houston and between Fort Worth and El Paso, and they’re on the road and you can go to YouTube.com at Aurora Driver and you can see our live stream, and it’s part of our commitment to transparency. We think it’s hard for the average person to kind of conceive of a driverless truck out on the road.Uh, and here it is out there operating.
1:09 spk_0
I’m I’m one of those. I was watching this and I was like, wow, I mean, it’s one thing to write about this and and see videos, but to see it actually working in real time. So within that semi truck, where is your technology in it and what is it doing?
1:24 spk_1
Yeah, so you can think of it as we build the driver. So our technology is the combination of the software and the hardware that allow that truck to get where it needs to go every day on the road safely. Uh, and so we have a combination of uh cameras, LIDAR, radar that allows to see the world around the truck 360 degrees, uh, and then we have this, uh, verifiable AI which is our technology for using, uh, artificial intelligence to drive the truck safely.And make sure that it it gets where it needs togo.
1:56 spk_0
Is there a human in the truck?
1:59 spk_1
So today we have an observer in our trucks, uh, they’re just kind of there to keep an eye on things, but they’re not there to keep the vehicle safe. It’s actually completely responsible for the safe driving itself.
2:09 spk_0
So,let me, let me ask this. So if it, if this truck is going down the road, it blows a tire. What happens?
2:17 spk_1
Yeah, so what happens is the same thing that uh would happen if any truck drives on the road. The the Aurora driver notices that a tire blew out, and then will work its way safely to the shoulder and stop. And if something more minor broke and it knew it needed to stop, then it will find its way off the freeway and get to a safe place to pull over and stop off the freeway.
2:38 spk_0
Whattype of conditions have you tested this in so far?
2:40 spk_1
So we run day and night, we are testing in the rain, we’re testing in wind, we’re testing in all the conditions. The driverless capability we’ve released for operating day and night on these particular lanes, but we come, come January, we expect we’ll be operating day and night in the rain, we’ll be operating Fort Worth to Phoenix, which is now a 1000 mile round trip or 1000 mile each way trip. So we’re expanding pretty quickly now.
3:07 spk_0
How difficult is it toPull this off successfully when it’s raining, or even, I mean, what about snow?
3:13 spk_1
Yeah, so we’re gonna deal with snow in a little bit. Uh, there’s not actually anything particularly magical about snow. It’s just another thing we need to get to. Um, it’s really hard to make it work. It’s automated vehicles is one of these things where pretty easily you can put a demo together. I joke that you give me 3 graduate students in the summer and I’ll get you a demo of a self-driving vehicle, but to get to the point where you’re willing to trust, where I put my family, I’d be willing to have it on the road.Uh, around other people, you know, it’s an immense amount of work, and I think a lot of people don’t understand the difference between make something work once and really validate it to the point that you trust it to work day in and day out on the road safely.
3:56 spk_0
Talk tous about where your passion for doing this came from.
4:00 spk_1
Yeah, I, I kind of stumbled into it. Um, I was doing my PhD and I’d been working on robots, uh, to drive across the Atacama Desert and look for signs of life, and this competition came up to build robots that drove, uh, across the desert at high speed for the Defense Department. And I thought that sounded like a lot of fun. It was this thing called the DARPA challenge, and it was to race from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. And the beginning with, like for me it purely was that sounded cool.And then when I started to learn about the benefits to the military of getting people off the supply line, uh, because we lost more men and women on the supply line in the front line in Iraq, uh, that that was like, that was motivating.And then over the intervening years, um, understanding how this could make the world safer, so the fact that we lose 50,000 Americans every year due to traffic accidents, that’s just unacceptable, and yet we accept it, and this technology can solve that. The fact that we have a fundamental shortage of drivers that over the next, uh, for trucks that over the next decade, we expect to need a million people to drive trucks, and we just don’t know where they’re gonna come from.And the, the supply line, supply chain, of course, is fundamental to our quality of life. And so this, this idea that we can build something really technologically fascinating, um, that it can have a huge benefit to society, and that the economic opportunity is profound, it’s kind of kept me excited and then I get to work with amazing people and work on cool stuff.
5:31 spk_0
Are are the physicalAre the physical roads equipped to handle driverless semi trucks?
5:38 spk_1
100% that our belief has been that you have to meet the world where it is today. Uh, and so if you want to make the roads better for automated vehicles, make them better for people, right? We have to be out there, we have to deal with the faded paint lines, we have to deal with, uh, the obstructed fields of view, and we have to do that safely.
5:58 spk_0
What’s preventing, like when when do you think?All semi trucks will just won’t have a driver. Is that in our lifetime? All
6:07 spk_1
is a very large number and, you know, people still ride horses. Um, so I feel like, you know, all is all is a hard number to to point to, but I think a lot of freight within the next uh couple of decades is going to be moved by automated vehicles, particularly the long haul trucking. Um, and I think that’s really, uh, it’s gonna be transformational, right, that.Um, I expect that in 5 years, if you’re not using our technology as a trucking company, you’re probably not competitive because we can be safer, we, you know, the aurora driver is always attentive. Uh, it never gets distracted, it never calls in sick, uh, it shows up when it needs to be there for you.
6:49 spk_0
Who is using this technology in terms of companies that investors may know?
6:54 spk_1
Yeah, some of the biggest names in freight. So today we work with FedEx, Werner, Hirschbach, Schneider, a bunch of others that I can’t name today, um, and we’ve been working with them for several years, and now they’re starting to begin to operate, uh, our trucks driverlessly.
7:10 spk_0
Is a FedEx using the technology more in like in in vans or are there semi semi trucks?
7:15 spk_1
So we’re today focused on the big 18 wheelers, the semi trucks, uh, and we’re really primarily focused on the least desirable trucks for, for truck drivers today, the big long haul things where people have to spend time away from their family. And I think this is one of the things that it’s actually misunderstood, is that the first place this technology is going to come to market is these long haul trips, um, and that means that the jobs are going to move to better parts of the ecosystem.And over time we’re gonna grow and increase the number of jobs and logistics is my expectation.
7:50 spk_0
What has to happen, uh, Chris, to getLet’s say a a trip from the east coast, let’s say New York to California, and how far are we away from that?
8:00 spk_1
Yeah, um, so from, from New York to California is a special case because California doesn’t yet allow driverless trucks, uh, but let’s take it, say, from Phoenix to, uh, Fort Lauderdale, um, that I expect by the end of next year we’re gonna be capable of doing, whether we will or won’t will be really a function of is there freight to move from Fort Wor Fort Lauderdale to Phoenix.Uh, but that kind of capability of driving, we just need to kind of continue to work and over the next year you’ll see us do that.
8:32 spk_0
Is that what will you be testing from Fort Laud Fort Lauderdale to to Fort Worth? Like is that in your road map?
8:41 spk_1
So what we’ve said is for 26, we expect to cover the majority of the Sun Belt. And the reason why the Sun Belt is this is uh the kind of the southern smile of the United States, where a lot of the freight actually moves through the air, because, you know, you asked about snow earlier, uh,Truck drivers don’t like driving in snow. Uh, it’s difficult, so we move a lot of the freight through this corridor where the weather is better, and that’s where we expect to be be building our our business over the next year.
9:09 spk_0
Explain this to me, how do we have driverless cars in California but not trucks?
9:15 spk_1
It’s a, it’s kind of a, an odd quirk of regulation. Ah, so that back in 2011, the legislature passed a bill that gave the DMV the authority to regulate automated vehicles, and at the time there was nobody working on trucks, and so the regulation came in place for light vehicles and they put a pause or prohibition on heavy trucks.Uh, and it’s just kind of lived that way. Now, the great news is that the state of California is moving forward with regulation for heavy trucks, and we expect something to come, uh, of that in the next few months. Should
9:46 spk_0
there be a, uh, a federal regulation for autonomous trucks, or do you still prefer statewide?
9:53 spk_1
We would love to see a federal framework ultimately, you know, the fact that we have to deal with 50 different slightly slight variations on rules and regulations, you know, it creates a little bit of friction. Do we absolutely need one? No. Um, but do I think that it will help accelerate, uh, the business forward and, and this technology’s access, uh, the access to this technology for all Americans. Yes.And we see promising progress towards that, things like the Drive Act that was introduced in Congress recently are moving the moving things in the right direction.
10:28 spk_0
All right, hang with us, uh, Chris, we’re gonna go off for a very short break. We’ll be right back.All right, welcome back to Opening bid Unfiltered here at the NASDAQ in Times Square. Having a fun chat with Aurora, co-founder and CEO Chris Urmson on the future of autonomous trucks. Chris, you know, we didn’t mentioned that, uh, mentioned at the top, but you were early days, what Waymo? Was it even called Waymothen?
10:53 spk_1
No, I, I was, I helped found what’s now Waymo. It was called the Google self-driving car project back then.
10:59 spk_0
What was it like trying to push through that technology? I will say early days, but this wasn’t that like far in the past.
11:07 spk_1
Yeah, some, some way not that far, you know, it was 2009, so 15 years ago, um, uh, it was, it was a lot of fun, right, that, um, I’ll forever be thankful to, uh, Larry and Sergei and, and Google for the opportunity they provided to go and try something that felt crazy, right? That we’re gonna, we’re gonna make self-driving vehicles that can drive through San Francisco and on the highway.Um, and, uh, working with uh amazing folks like Dimitri, who’s currently the coach CEO of Waymo, uh, and others there, it, it was a gift of a lifetime.
11:43 spk_0
What lessons did you take from, uh, Larry and Sergei, and you have applied in your own business?
11:48 spk_1
I think uh a couple of them. So one is, you know, think big, right? That I think Larry consistently thought about what actually could be done rather than, you know, what could you make happen in the near term and have that vision for what transformation is. The other was really about trusting your team and the employees and giving them the flexibility and freedom to go and and make things happen andLike those are two of the big things I would have taken.
12:14 spk_0
We’ve heard a lot, uh, I’ve heard a lot on on RoboTaxi, of course, Elon Musk is trying to get those off the road. We’ll get those onto the road next year. Is that, is that what the future is? The roads are just filled with autonomousvehicles?
12:27 spk_1
I think it’s gonna be a big part of our future, yes. I think in the same way today, you know, we think that it’s quaint that people would have horse drawn buggies and ride horses to get around and then the automobile came in. I think, you know, look back 50 years from now, people are gonna wonder.Did we really let people drive cars on the road? Um, I just given the opportunities for improving safety. I, I go back to this, you know, we have 50,000 Americans die on the roads every year, and we think that’s OK. Um, and we now have the technology that allow us to have the freedom and flexibility that we, um, that we demand, but also have the safety that comes along withit.
13:07 spk_0
Talk to us a little bit about that safety component. I mean, how do you measureOr prepare for, like I mentioned, uh, the, the truck blows a tire or someone runs in front of the truck, God forbid, but how do you, how are you building that into your models?
13:20 spk_1
Yeah, and the sad part or the difficult part here is there’s no like silver bullet, right? This is uh a coherent effort across the company. We call it a safety case, um, and the idea is you have to think about every part, you have to think about, um, is it gonna be proficient? So how do you make sure you have the tests andThe, the set of ah questions you needed to answer in place so that you know it’s going to drive well. How do you know that it’s gonna fail safely? So we talked about the tire blowout. You have to do complicated and interesting system engineering work to think about all the different ways things can fail, and enumerate those, and then combine that with what you learn in real time from out in the world. And then of course you need the organization to be responsive and appropriate. You need to make sure you’re always learning, you need to make sure thatUm, you’re being resilient to cybersecurity attacks, that kind of thing. You need to have a culture of the company, where people are excited and willing to raise concerns so that we can address them. And you do all of that, um, you get to a place where you can trust it. In our case, we’ve got something like 4.5 million tests that we push the system through before we ever let it go driverless on the road. Um, so it’s, it’s really has to be this cohesive effort.I think a lot of people focus just on, I have this cool algorithm, and they miss the complexity, which I think is even more so, and how do I know that that cool algorithm just doesn’t just appear to work, but actually does work and is going to be safe out in theworld.
14:47 spk_0
I imagine you talked to uh regulators in various states, like when they meet you for the first time, what are some of the questions they ask you about this technology?
14:55 spk_1
I think often it’s, it’s the, the natural curiosity and skepticism that you’d expect, right? This is a big technology step. It’s something that’s important, transformational, uh, and so how does it work? How do you know it’s going to work? The same kind of questions that that you’re just asking. Um, and so part of what we’ve been doing and we knew this was going to be the case from day one and so for theActually the 9 years we’ve been around as a company, we’ve been working closely with regulators and legislators, uh, to help them at both the federal and state levels understand what we’re trying to do, understand the benefits, have a thoughtful perspective on the, the risks, uh, and allow them to do their job and work in partnership with them.
15:37 spk_0
What’s criticalto keeping, you know, your technology continuing to improve? Is it more chips or be even faster chips fromCompanies like Nvidia, which you know very well, is it better satellite technology? Does the semi semi truck have to evolve in design?
15:54 spk_1
I, I think all of those things can help, right? So we look at, like if you look at um First Light L LiDAR, this proprietary technology that we’ve developed that allows us to see further down the road than anyone else. That’s really an added advantage for uh trucks. You know, we can see, uh, basically, we can see things 11 seconds before you could with conventional LIDAR. So that means we can react more quickly and earlier.We’ve thought really hard about the test cases and the, the scenarios that we want to make sure that we expose the system to so to know that it’s gonna respond safely to them. Um, of course, more computation at a lower cost, that’s good for everybody, that that improves the economics of the business over time. Um, and then eventually, I do think the truck itself will evolve that today the truck is really built around the fact that a person is gonna effectively live in it, uh, for years at a time.And as we move to the point where this truck is really independent and operating without a person on board, you can see how that the economics of that will get better for the customers. I
16:59 spk_0
mean, to your point, why, why do we even need a cab? If a person is not driving it, why do you even need that?
17:03 spk_1
I, I think that’s a great question. Uh, and I expect ultimately you won’t have a cab. Now, you want some kind of aeroshell the front of the truck, because otherwise you’re pushing the front of the trailer through the wind and that’s not good for fuel economy.Uh, but they’re gonna look quite a bit different, uh, you know, a decade from now is my expectation.
17:20 spk_0
Why isn’t, you know, I’m just thinking now, I’m going through my head like the supply chain and how, when, at what point do we have your technology? We have this automated autonomous semi truck, and we have the robot putting the packages in the back of it and unloading it. I mean, completely removing the human from the supply chain equation.
17:39 spk_1
Well, I don’t think we’re ever going to remove the human from the supply chain equation. I just think the quality of jobs are going to improve, right? We expect over the next 15 years that automated vehicles can introduce about 450,000 new jobs in America. Um, and as I said, around the, you know, if we’re focusing on the long haul trucking and making that more efficient.Uh, drivers are gonna move to short haul, and they’re gonna be going to the grocery store and they’re gonna be doing the other kind of uh customer service elements of driving unless kind of the mechanical servoing of the steering wheel down the freeway. And so I think people are always going to be involved, uh, they’re just gonna be involved at a kind of a, a higher level in it.
18:17 spk_0
So your big bets for 2026, what what should investors expect?
18:22 spk_1
Uh, it’s 2026 is gonna be awesome, right? That we have been building the company, spring loading it to scale and move forward, right? We, we’ve got past the fact that technology works, and now it’s, let’s roll it out. And so what you should see in 206 is one, we’re gonna be rolling out across the Sun Belt and really rapidly expanding the number of places that the truck is able to drive and serve customers. And then by the end of the year, we’re gonna have hundreds of these things on the road, operating driverlessly, serving customers moving freight.
18:51 spk_0
I don’t know of a more eloquent way to put this, Chris. I’ll just, I’ll just ask it this way. Over the past, let’s say this year.Have you had any oh shit moments working on technology like this? Uh, it’sI’m not, I don’t talk to a lot of executives putting semi semi trucks on the road that drive by themselves.
19:09 spk_1
Uh, no, we, it, it’s actually been very rewarding. I, we had built a process, we’d built the tools to launch this technology, and we believed we were doing everything right. And what we’ve seen over the last 100+1,000 miles of driving.Is that it’s working the way we expected. And so there’s kind of like, if you want the oh shit moment, it’s like,Oh shit, it worked the way we thought it would, right? And yeah, we were right, and now it is rolling out and scaling, and the fact that literally every day we have trucks roll out of a terminal, drive down the freeway, deliver goods for somebody, you know, like the future is here, uh, and now it’s actually making that happen in scale, uh, across the country.
19:53 spk_0
Uh, last but not least, uh, personal question. I mean your dad was a warden, right? Um, that is like, what did you learn?From him, you know, in that environment, uh, and how have you applied it to your own businesscareer?
20:06 spk_1
I think one of the things my dad, my dad was amazing in a lot of ways and is amazing in a lot of ways, um, but he respected everyone, and I think that was whether they were part of the staff or part of the inmates at the prison, um, and, you know, treating people with dignity and respect.Uh, I think is just a pretty fundamentally humane way to behave, um, and, you know, I think that’s, that’s a really important lesson.
20:36 spk_0
Well, lastbut not least, I, I can’t help myself because I just, I’m generally fascinated by this technology. Why if we’re having this conversation a couple of years from now, do you think this technology is part of like a larger automaker or a truck company, or do you still see Aurora as a publicly traded company going at it on its own driving this technology?
20:56 spk_1
We intend to be an independent company, uh, right, that’s, you know, I’m a big believer that a company should be, if it’s run well, makes decisions in the service of its mission. And Aurora’s mission is to deliver the benefits of self-driving technology safely, quickly, and broadly. That’s not an OEM’s mission, that’s not uh a trucking company’s mission.And so I think we can be best in the world at that, and then we can help complement these amazing companies. We can help complement the Hirschbachs and Schneider’s and FedEx as the world.We can support and complement the PAC cars and Volvos and internationals in the world, um, and work together to kind of bring this future forward. I, I’m just, it feels like the right structure for this. And frankly, when I look at a $1 trillion dollar market and the, the leadership we have in our role in that market.Um, I wouldn’t want to trade that foranything.
21:50 spk_0
Well, I think this is, uh, fascinating what you’re working on. I encourage everyone to check out the Aurora Innovation YouTube page and if they want to see this stuff in, in, in real time, it is absolutely mind blowing. Chris, good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us.
22:02 spk_1
Thanks again. Great to see you. All right,
22:04 spk_0
and that’s it for the latest episode of Opening Bid unfiltered here at the Nasdaq in Times Square. Uh, continue to hit us with all that love on the social media platforms and on the podcast platforms. Love the feedback. It makes me better at doing these interviews. We’ll talk to you soon.
